Curse

Aggro Monkey · Sep 16, 2005, 11:59 AM // 11:59

I have been running this build for about a week or so and fine tuning it along the way. I think it may be fine the way it is, yet i would like to get some help with this to make it the best that i can make it.

Attributes

Illusion - 12
Beast Mastery - 9
Expertise - 9
Marksmanship - 9

Skills

Fragility
Incendiary arrows
Tiger's Fury
Distracting Shot
Pin Down
Conjure Phantasm
Arcane Conundrum
Rez Sig

Weapons

PvP Vampiric Short Bow (Life stealing 5 Life Regen -1)
PvP Sundering Short Bow ( AP 10% Chance 10%)
both damage +15% while in a stance

Any advice i can get for tweaks to make this build much more efficient would be very much appreciated.

I was also thinking a Fragility with Apply Poison, Hunters Shot, Pin Down (to load on the conditions) and an ele with Crystal Wave to help out the killing process.

John Waffletord · Sep 16, 2005, 12:23 PM // 12:23

Hmm.. say you dropped some traps infront of you, and hit a warrior with fragility as he was running to get to attack you.. could be devestating.

galkraft · Sep 16, 2005, 12:34 PM // 12:34

Your current setup does little for Fragility, IMO. You have two conditioners. Ahhhh.. but i noticed something. Your Wilderness is 0, meaning that Incendiary only causes 1s burns. Nice. So long as Tiger's Fury doesn't make you TOO fast, you got a lot of ON/OFF burns going. Am i right?

Nonetheless, I wouldn't call it a Fragility build unless you had at least one other condition. Lose Arcane and add Hunter's, for a more pure fragger. Don't use Apply Poison, because it will cancel out Incendiary.

Since Wilderness is low, you don't have much heal options. Predatory Season would greatly enhance your Vampiric Bow. I have not verified this, but the word is, archers get double the health per hit. Just ok it with your party first, as heals will reduce by 20%

Also, I notice you using strictly Short Bow. Realize that after casting Fragility, you will have to run a couple more steps before firing the first arrow. If you really want that fast refire rate, go with Flat Bow. Once you Pin Down the target, you're not gonna miss. And when in close range, Flat Bow is still hard to dodge. The only drawback is a slightly slower interrupt.

galkraft · Sep 16, 2005, 01:04 PM // 13:04

doh. I also noticed you have a few expensive hexes for a Ranger, and no energy management. If you're going for fragging, armor penetration shouldn't be your biggest concern. Use Zealous Short/Flat Bow. And I only recommend Zealous because you are using Tiger's Fury, which is what makes it the -1 regen worthwhile.

If you insist on using Sundering, why not go all the way with Horn Bow? I haven't done the math on which dps is better: Sundering Horn or Sundering Short (factoring in Tiger's), but Horn sounds more logical to me.

zehly · Sep 16, 2005, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Would poison be good here as well? The idea with the traps is good, too.

Silmor · Sep 16, 2005, 07:17 PM // 19:17

The Fragility/unpowered Incendiary Arrows setup is pretty old, but nice to see it's still effective. Apply Poison or Poison Arrow last too long for this kind of work, since the basis of the build is the on/off nature of the 'on fire' triggering Fragility twice for each arrow. Poison would simply be refreshed over and over again, which triggers Fragility once initially, and never after that.

Sundering short bow will win from sundering horn bow damage-wise, but if you're interested in optimal damage you'd be using vampiric short bow for 5 added damage onto every arrow.

tigernz · Sep 16, 2005, 08:58 PM // 20:58

I'd lose the phantasm for Phantom Pain - not as much degen, but you'll get an extra condition from the deep wound (and ~100 dmg)

Also consider barbed trap - costs the same as pindown, but gives the benefits of both pindown and hunters, and with 0 wilderness it'll be off again in 3 secs, causing fragility to trigger quicker.

galkraft · Sep 16, 2005, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigernz

I'd lose the phantasm for Phantom Pain - not as much degen, but you'll get an extra condition from the deep wound (and ~100 dmg)

True. however, the extra 2 degen from Conjure over 10 seconds comes to 40 damage, right? which is more than what fragility+Deep Wound would yield. I believe fraggers use phantom pain when they also have conjure phantasm, not over against. I think A.Monkey's biggest concern is using a hex to "cover up" Fragility. On that note, A.Monkey, you should place your second hex right after Fragility on your skillbar, as that will be your typical combo order, right?

Quote:

Also consider barbed trap - costs the same as pindown, but gives the benefits of both pindown and hunters, and with 0 wilderness it'll be off again in 3 secs, causing fragility to trigger quicker.

Agreed. Basically a tradeoff, though. Depends on two things: one, is the actual crippling effect important to you? then a 3-second cripple is not a worthy tradeoff. two, is range important to you? because traps require you to close the distance. Damage vs Range basically.

I have not tried this build, and you better believe I'm going to (haha, thanks for the inspiration), but perhaps traps would hinder the whole frag+incendiary idea? (by that i mean preparation+firing as many arrows as possible during the Fragility time frame)

Alright, I'm done butting in. Sorry.

twicky_kid · Sep 16, 2005, 11:37 PM // 23:37

no the 40 isn't right

each arrow of hp regen or degen is 2 hp per second. PP is much better.

the life double life from season works on my w/r too so i'm not sure if it gives double for physical dmg or why its doing it but i love it. drop it and watch the monks struggle wondering what happened

btw i'd use illusionary burden instead of pin down. the affect last longer and allows you to use barbed trap with a 3 sec duration. most people don't bring hex removal like the heavy condition removal.

twicky_kid · Sep 17, 2005, 12:15 AM // 00:15

ok used it and don't see this as threatning.

they have to be too dumb to walk into the traps first off. 2nd you can't use the traps while you are getting hit which makes 2 dead skills after battle begins. 3rd quick shot + conjure + kindle does about 3x as much dmg and faster.

the traps do drop them fast but that's too dependant on them being dumb

KuTeBaka · Sep 17, 2005, 12:17 AM // 00:17

one fragility will drain your energy completely. go me/r for more damage and energy.

Ollj · Sep 17, 2005, 12:26 AM // 00:26

"on fire" is the only condition that really counts for fragility.
Others just leave plenty of time for hex removing OR condition removing (with healing) . while "on fire" is at least imune against condition removing.

All other conditions are just extra conditions but dont combile as good with it.
Its cute how many mesmers waste a necromancer elite just for 3 more conditions instead of just burning the foe to the ground.
just look at the time factors of skills and conditions.

twicky_kid · Sep 17, 2005, 12:31 AM // 00:31

fragility doesn't care about removal in fact it welcomes it with open arms.

a frag mes can deal 400+ dmg in 6 sec. haven't seen anything that can deal that much dmg that fast

galkraft · Sep 17, 2005, 04:04 AM // 04:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

no the 40 isn't right

each arrow of hp regen or degen is 2 hp per second. PP is much better.

I didn't say it right. I'll rephrase. Conjure Phantasm (-5) over 10 seconds does 100 damage. Phantom Pain at best (-3) over 10 seconds does 60 damage + 28-ish once Deep Wound triggers.[/quote]

Quote:

the life double life from season works on my w/r too so i'm not sure if it gives double for physical dmg or why its doing it but i love it. drop it and watch the monks struggle wondering what happened

hmm. were you using melee or bow? I thought it was for bows, but that's interesting if it's melee too.

Quote:

most people don't bring hex removal like the heavy condition removal.

True. Still, Conjure Phantasm ain't so bad to keep with the high Illusioin and all. Maybe forget about Illusionary Burden

galkraft · Sep 17, 2005, 04:19 AM // 04:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuTeBaka

one fragility will drain your energy completely. go me/r for more damage and energy.

If you do that, then Tiger's Fury becomes 10 energy. Tiger's Fury=more Incendiaries=more base+frag damage. I say go with Zealous Bow, lose Arcane, replace with Power Drain i guess. Bring Illusion down to 10 and bump up Inspiration. (Keep in mind Fragility only needs to last long enough for the Incendiary Arrows to finish)

twicky_kid · Sep 17, 2005, 04:32 AM // 04:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by galkraft

Phantom Pain at best (-3) over 10 seconds does 60 damage + 28-ish once Deep Wound triggers.

[/QUOTE]

once again wrong

deep wound does 20% of max life but doesn't change the amout on dmg you have already taken. most have 500+ life which 20% is 100+ dmg.

so pp accually does 160 dmg by the time it ends

galkraft · Sep 17, 2005, 04:52 AM // 04:52

doh. and all this time i thought everyone else was misunderstanding. my bad. PP not CP. settled. good?

Aggro Monkey · Sep 17, 2005, 11:31 AM // 11:31

The main reason i chose this kind of build instead of Me/R is because, well i hate being a target at the beginning. So i sit to the side, target a monk, mesmer, ele and pound away. I use AC mostly to stop mesmers and eles even if it is for a few seconds, and pin down if a warrior is abusing the hell out of a monk.

Thanks for all the advice, I will have to try it out with some of the tweaks, minus the traps idea, if they run into the traps like that, they are stupid and deserve to get killed in quarter of a second.

One more thing, about the idea of incendiary arrows, along with hunters and pindown for 2 more conditions then an Ele with crystal wave. Would that be worth trying or not?

galkraft · Sep 17, 2005, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aggro Monkey

The main reason i chose this kind of build instead of Me/R is because, well i hate being a target at the beginning. So i sit to the side, target a monk, mesmer, ele and pound away. I use AC mostly to stop mesmers and eles even if it is for a few seconds, and pin down if a warrior is abusing the hell out of a monk.

After all my posts about dropping Arcane, I realized that yeah, it could help slow down target foe's spells in between your Incendiary interrupts, and for your stated purpose as well. I was just concerned about energy...

Quote:

One more thing, about the idea of incendiary arrows, along with hunters and pindown for 2 more conditions then an Ele with crystal wave. Would that be worth trying or not?

Throw in Throw Dirt for a winning combination. You gotta get close for CW, so Throw Dirt helps you close that distance. That skill will add to the abusive warriors even more too. Looking awfully expensive though (30 energy from Frag and CW), so i couldn't tell ya. With all that goin on, Tiger's might lose you too much. And without Tiger's, lose the zealous bow idea. Let me know how that turns out.

EDIT: I'm an idiot. You obviously weren't talking about a R/Me/E build, which is impossible, which was what I thought I was talking about. Gonna stop now.

Odd Sock · Sep 17, 2005, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aggro Monkey

I have been running this build for about a week or so and fine tuning it along the way. I think it may be fine the way it is, yet i would like to get some help with this to make it the best that i can make it.

Attributes

Illusion - 12
Beast Mastery - 9
Expertise - 9
Marksmanship - 9

Skills

Fragility
Incendiary arrows
Tiger's Fury
Distracting Shot
Pin Down
Conjure Phantasm
Arcane Conundrum
Rez Sig

Weapons

PvP Vampiric Short Bow (Life stealing 5 Life Regen -1)
PvP Sundering Short Bow ( AP 10% Chance 10%)
both damage +15% while in a stance

Any advice i can get for tweaks to make this build much more efficient would be very much appreciated.

I was also thinking a Fragility with Apply Poison, Hunters Shot, Pin Down (to load on the conditions) and an ele with Crystal Wave to help out the killing process.

Ive been using similar builds for a while. Personally I like the Mes/R version better but the R/Me offers more interrupts which is just gold. For Arena I find it easier to play as Ranger primary simply because people pay less attention to you. This is the setup I use:

Fragility
Incendiary
Tiger's
Pin Down
Throw Dirt
Savage Shot
Distracting Shot
Res Sig

12 Illusions
4 Beast Mastery
13 Expertise
12 Marks

Weapon Slot 1: Short Bow, Zealous, Armor/Health mod
Weapon Slot 2: Short Bow, Vampiric, Armor/Health mod

Strategy: get in close to your target (melee range). Slap on Fragility, he'll try to remove it... Distracting or Savage, I like Distracting since it's disabled for a while. Then Throw Dirt, Incendiary, Tiger's, Pin Down. If your team mates are any smart and focus fire, the monk will die. The rest of the other classes are never a problem. I usually go for anyhting that has DOT damage since it's brutal for you if you don't have a monk on your team (and you can't kite DOT damage).

Once I played with a Frag/Virulence mesmer. We'd focus fire and the target would just die almost instanteneously. Quite funny to watch.